KTOWNLOWDOWN - Latest Comments in Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Concerned — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:29:00 -0000

Paul, I have to admit that these men SHOULD speak up, but the fact that you seem to attribute truth as defined by men is troubling to me. Can not the Holy Spirit lead you into ALL truth as the Word teaches us? Just because other men don't say anything doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

Monergism and modern-day scholars and teachers do not determine truth. God's Word does. Read the Word of God, compare the teachings and PRACTICES of Sovereign Grace Ministries, seek the Lord in prayer, and see what He tells you.

DON'T look to websites, blogs, your pastor, your care group leader, or anyone else in this. If oyu want the truth, the only One who can lead you without any bias, and without any deception or sinfulness possibly interfering with their judgment and discernment is the Spirit of God. So seek Him. He will reveal truth.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Paul — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 01:10:43 -0000

If Sovereign Grace Ministries was a cult they would be put into the same category of the Boston Church, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons. The theologians of today would point them out as being a cult rather than write books with them, teach seminars with them and fellowship with them. All one has to do is go to monergismdotcom and see CJ Mahaney listed alongside of John Piper, R.C. Sproul,Tim Keller, Sinclair Ferguson, John MacArthur, Al Mohler, James White, Michael Horton, D.A. Carson, Mark Dever, John Frame, James Boice, J. Ligon Duncan III, Iain H Murray,Arturo Azurdia III, and J.I. Packer. If Sovereign Grace Ministries was a cult, these men would speak up.

In Christ,

Paul

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Jim — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 13:41:08 -0000

Are all posts moderated now?

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Jim — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 13:06:30 -0000

I'd also like to say that I highly respect you for restoring the comments in this thread.

Blogging is tough. When we create a post and invite comments, we open a door.

Sometimes we don't like what comes through that door, but that's the nature of the beast.

Well done!

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

acme — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:50:57 -0000

Hmm--I see. I know you've indicated that you're still learning as a blogger. I believe you have my email because I have to leave it here to leave a comment. Would it not have been more in the spirit of Christ if you had emailed me and asked me about it, one Christian to another?

One thing I have learned from SGM over the last 22 years is that idols are generally good things that we want too much: marriage, money, security, even obedient children, happy families, and modestly dressed women.

History is filled with well-meaning people setting up churches, communities, or countries, trying to get it right, trying to eliminate the stuff that tears us apart, to support the stuff that builds us up. Some of these efforts have worked well enough (with some mistakes that they have left good legacies); some have been effective but wrong. Some focus on religion, some eliminate it. Some focus on economics. Some focus on morality or philosophy or lifestyles.

I believe that SGM is filled with well-meaning people trying very hard to get it right. You eliminated my comment because I compared it to another faith community that tries very hard to get it right, but whose means of enforcing modesty on women is truly excessive. I did not say, nor did I mean to imply, that these two are equivalent organizations--I do mean that the root issues are the same.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Concerned — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:06:10 -0000

Glad to see your site about this is up and running again. I admire your freedom in hearing others' viewpoints, even if they differ from your own. I mean that...it takes guts to let others air their views on your own blog and not have any fear or desire to "control" things...if you are able to remain in an SGM church and not become legalistic or spiritually abused, then by all means do so, and help others who are unable to not become legalistic and in bondage.

I think there are many in SGM churches who are not in bondage to the extent I was, or those on the other blogs. But, the spiritual abuse IS real, and it CAN happen, if you are not careful. So if you are free, then please keep an eye out for others...thanks for your blog!

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

svandyke — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:16:15 -0000

I decided that your reference at the end of the post was not appropriate for this blog. I don't not like to edit comments (other than spelling errors) so I would rather not post your comment than be accused of changing your words.

Please feel free to resubmit without such inappropriate comparisons.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

acme — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:07:55 -0000

I was trying to "share the link love" when I left a post here yesterday. Did I offend you or did it get lost in the blogosphere?

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Steve240 — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:57:22 -0000

My website has another view on SGM's views and practices on courtship.

Unfortunately Josh Harris left a lot out when he wrote his book on "kissing dating goodbye." The church he is now senior pastor at had multiple problems with Harris's "solution." Why weren't these problems presented in Harris's book

Why hasn't Harris publicized the problems he noticed with how singles related at his church on his website?

When I see this practiced I wonder what else is askew in Sovereign Grace Ministries including the Knoxville Church.

www.ikdg.wordpress.com
I Kissed Dating Goodbye: Wisdom or Foolishness?

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Keith — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:42:35 -0000

My wife and I (And 4-6 other families, including the former worship leader) left a SG Church less than a year ago, after seven years. We were a part of starting the church, were in leadership as Care Group Leaders, and served in other areas of service leadership. Our experience is similar to what I have been reading here and in other blogs. The leadership structure was sinfully authoritarian and controlling. We first noticed this when several families (friends) abruptly left years before we did. I was at that time stunned that anyone would leave what I considered to be the perfect church, so I reached out to these families to better understand what they were going through. The pastor was extremely irritated that I had the audacity to go and talk with these former members without permission. Other members asked me if I had gotten the pastor’s permission before I went and talked to them. At first I didn’t understand and just felt like, “What do you mean ‘permission’?” It turns out that the families all left in response to the control and abuse they experienced, though I didn’t understand what they were talking about at the time and I guess I blamed them. Our story began when my wife and I initiated a friendly meeting with our pastor/friend about what seemed to us to be a subtle shift in the church away from grace and toward legalism (The sermons, Care Group themes, etc.) It seemed like we were beginning to “drop the ball,” to quote CJ, when it came to the gospel. Well, we left the meeting 3-hours later, feeling well corrected, as the pastor and assistant pastor tag teamed us. This started a series of forced meetings with the pastors, over the course of a year or more, where our hearts were examined and we were denied attendance at the care group of our choice and warned to not talk to others about anything. Eventually, I was told that I could not count the offering anymore (I was the lead guy), then could not be on the Greeting Team, and finally, we were told we could not attend Care Group at all. Many people were shocked, but assumed the pastors knew what they were doing so didn’t ask questions. It was at this time that sermons from the pulpit were about, “protecting your pastors,” and “submitting to their authority and making it a joy to lead you.” I was determined to stay with my church family, His Body, and not succumb to the bullying by the pastors, but after receiving an absurd e-mail with accusations from the pastor, and feeling somewhat shunned by some others, we decided to leave peacefully to avoid a fight. I am concerned that this is not a local problem, but SGM-wide. I am sure that our pastors’ behavior was either condoned or overlooked by the regional SGM leadership team here. I think I will post this in other blogs as this is the first time I have summarized our experience.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Keep it Simple — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:27:44 -0000

Unfortuantly, the SGM survivors site gets off onto so many tangents of offense that the real issues are buried. ----And, there are real issues-----.like Travis said. I'd like to be able to recommend the site to people who are thinking of joining a SGM church, but I just can't.

Proverbs 10:19
"When words are many, sin is not absent, but he who holds his tongue is wise."

And I'm not saying to hold the tongue about everything, but to be very careful in what you say. Use God's Word as your guide. Lot's less of, "just say'in".

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

I Left Sovereign Grace Ministr — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:12:54 -0000

Talk about googling...I google sovereign grace ministries and cult and hit your page. And I noticed your link to sovereign grace ministries, plus reading the description of oyur church, means you are a member of an SGM church.

So I would have to agree with the many who are asking if your church is a cult - yes, it likely is, as SGM is an authoritarian franchise "ministry" and the secret is now out after over 20 years. People are all over the internet telling their stories of spiritual abuse at the hands of SGM leadership in churchs ALL OVER the USA. What is scary is that all the stories are alike - hence my claim that SGM is a franchise.

Don't be afraid to look into the websites and blogs exposing SGM for what it is: a cult some say (as I do) others just say it is very dangerous, the shepherding going on. This movement began back in the 70's and CJ was involved then too. The first site that blew the lid off was www.sgmsurvivors.com but since then others have cropped up like www.sgmrefuge.com and www.spiritualtyranny.com these are REAL people with real stories that can't be ignored. They are all alike. And until Nov of last year no one knew why they had struggled at their SGM church.

God is exposing things to the light, The truth will come out.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

svandyke — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:18:36 -0000

wow. let it go.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Travis Seitler — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:18:33 -0000

Actually, you could probably check out websites such as SGMRefuge.com and SGMSurvivors.com if you really want to find out why that particular search may be more popular in the months ahead.

Hint: the true reasons have very little to do with your list.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Amber (Bringing Good Home) — Mon, 19 May 2008 13:35:39 -0000

Very interesting.

Our church often gets the same label. Probably for many of the same reasons. We're very similar, except that we do have a youth group, but the parents are involved a lot. We do a lot of family oriented things. Our adult Sunday school class is small because most of the adults are actively involved in teaching the children. We have a lot of stay home and/or homeschooling moms. Most families have at least 3 or 4 children. One has nine. :) Also, numbers 4,5,6, and 7. Definitely #8. Our women meet every month to practice Titus 2 - we're very big on things like modesty and submission, which I'm sure doesn't help. :) The fact that we're a reformed church doesn't help either. Still.. given all that. I still can't figure out why people use the word "cult." It brings up such obvious connotations. Things like, locking yourselves into a compound away from the rest of the world. Which obviously, neither one our churches do.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Nashville SEO Zombie — Mon, 19 May 2008 04:34:22 -0000

lol at the “Cornerstone Church Knoxville Cult" phase. I do SEO on a lot of sites, and I'm always finding some weird phrase people find my sites from. Many times its not really related to my site.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

svandyke — Wed, 14 May 2008 17:06:42 -0000

"Modesty" in this context is applied to the specific way a person may dress.

Women are encouraged (especially by other women) to make sure that their "dress" is appropriate. Unfortunately, the simple fact is that the church has to work at not being like the world, and in American society, the less a girl wears, the higher she is held in regard. CCK strives to oppose this trend.

Modesty and humility (in general) are obviously not gender specific.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Matt — Wed, 14 May 2008 15:11:29 -0000

Do the men "train" each other to be modest too? Or is modesty a gender specific attribute?

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

svandyke — Mon, 12 May 2008 10:01:47 -0000

ALK...I am truly sorry to hear that you had that experience. But the reason for the post was not to offend or to judge... just to explain some things that might be a bit 'different'.
I would obviously disagree with your last statement...the leaders of the church want to equip the members of the church with the Gospel...that's it...and encourage believers regardless of gender, but they don't shy away from what the Bible says on the roles of men and women, and this is offensive to a lot of folks. Believe me I understand where you are coming from.

And I can speak for many of the men in that church, a wife that stays home is a sign of sacrifice not of privilege....especially when you don't even make $40K.

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

ALK — Mon, 12 May 2008 09:45:27 -0000

I went there for almost a year and only had 2 people introduce themselves. Of course, I don't fit in to their description of a perfect member...I'm a single mom, and I work full-time! OMG...don't everyone freak-out because you think I'm going to hell! BTW-I'm not!

They sure didn't show any "love" to me...I went there so that my daughter would have a place to go on the the weekends she was with me. She enjoyed her class, but I doubt the other 5 year olds judge her like the adults do!

The leaders of this church want women to stay home and pop-out babies. Thinking like that is so sad to me! Open your eyes Cornerstone, all women weren't created to do that, and all men weren't created to make $200,000 a year so his wife can stay home!

Please!

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Caleb Hancock — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:41:50 -0000

Yeah Shawn,

You hit the nail on the head when you said that other college students, and even some campus ministries think that VFC is weird.

But, I love to look like a fool for Christ's sake. The gospel is being proclaimed in CCK and VFC, and as long as that keeps happening, there WILL be opposition and persecution. It's a given!

Thanks for your post, it was insightful.

All for Jesus!
-CH

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

svandyke — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:00:45 -0000

I absolutely agree, the above points are not what that church is focused on...CCK is centered on the Gospel....
the point was just that those are some things that may jump out as "odd" to the non-member

Re: Cornerstone Church - Knoxville Cult?

Katie — Fri, 09 May 2008 12:43:52 -0000

Many of our family members expressed concern about Cornerstone when we first started going there, mainly because, to them, anything not affiliated with a major denomination is risky. Once they read the doctrine and heard the teaching, they gladly blessed our decision.

And, Aaron and I can say with certainty that
Cornerstone is not a cult because we disagree with a couple of the points you mentioned (we only have 3 kids and are stopping at that, Lord willing, I work part-time, we will probably let our kids date--with guidelines, etc...) and our friends and the leadership of the church have made it clear that those things are not what the church is centered around. Cornerstone is completely Gospel-centered while cults are usually centered around practices and ideas other than the Gospel. I thank God for Cornerstone every day!!!